Why is the E9 on the front neck and the C6 on the back?

[Paul Strojan]

I just made a deal on a Fender 2000 and it will be a lot easier to add knee levers to the back neck of the guitar. I am curious where the convention of E9 in the front and C6 in the back came from?

[Bob Carlucci]

Always been that way, can't say why. However it doesn't have to be.. There are some guys that play E9 on the neck closest to them.. If I had a d10, I would put the C6 on the outer neck for certain... bob

[Bobby D. Jones]

Buddy Emmons developed and set his guitar that way.

There are several reasons, Some people would want the E9th on the back neck. I have seen pictures of one steel player having play neck on back. Ash Tray and Drink Holder on front neck space.

A poplar pro steeler just ordered a new Mullen with the E9th on back neck, C6th on front neck.

1. Mechanically the E9th on the back neck would help. The front neck has all the pedal pull stress, That causes cabinet drop, And detuning when pedals are engaged.
2. If a person has wrist problems, The back neck allows more adjusting of wrist angle for comfort and speed.
3. Allows a person to set more upright, With less stress on back.
4. Today, A Single neck on a Double body. With the play neck on the back. The front neck space would be a great place for a bracket, To hold a lap top computer or tablet.

Thinking out of the box is fun. That why I play steel guitar.

[Brett Day]

I think E9th is on the front neck because it is one of the many contributions Buddy Emmons made to steel guitar. Ralph Mooney used GFI and Sho-Bud steel guitars with the E9th on the bottom neck. Players like Buddy, Paul Franklin, Sonny Garrish, John Hughey, Dan Dugmore and other players use the front neck for E9th tuning and the back neck for C6th. Before I got the GFI Ultra D-10 I played, I was at Steel Guitar Nashville, and Bobbe Seymour had suggested I try out a GFI because he recommended GFI guitars at the time. I wanted a Sho-Bud Super Pro, but he suggested GFI. So, he sets up a GFI Ultra D-10 in front of me so I could try it out, so I'm sittin' there picking on the bottom neck, and Bobbe looked at me and said, "Do you know what you're doing?" and I said, "No, I have no idea", and he said, "You're playing C6th". When I got the GFI, I thought I would have to play C6th a lot since my left hand wasn't used to a D-10 yet, but I guess the second or third night of playing, I tried out the E9th neck, the top neck and it worked.

[scott murray]

Curly Chalker had a reverse set-up, there’s nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same

[Ian Rae]

When I played D10 I often wondered why the more commonly used neck was further away, putting more strain on your back. But that assumes that the E9 is the more commonly used. Emmons was a tall guy who played C6 a lot, and of course he mostly set the standard.

[Andy Zahnd]

I don't know why the E9th neck is at the top and the C6th neck is at the bottom. But as a rather tall person, I feel more comfortable playing with the E9th neck at the top, as the pedals are positioned more to the left. The C6th pedals are okay... but not for long periods of time, because then I get a cramp in my thigh. So for me, since I play 70% E9th, it's clear that the E9th neck should be on top... so that I can comfortably press the pedals.

[Dave Grafe]

My '83 Zum was originally built with C6 in front and E9 in back, there is no law. I personally find the front neck is easier to move around on.

[Richard Alderson]

I would flip them if I could start all over again. You would want what you use most to be closest, which is E9th for most of us. But its not a deal breaker either way. I was just watching Don Pack vids, and he had E9th back neck.And maybe Mooney at one time with an old Fender?

[Dave Grafe]

I would flip them if I could start all over again. You would want what you use most to be closest, which is E9th for most of us. But its not a deal breaker either way. I was just watching Don Pack vids, and he had E9th back neck.And maybe Murph, Jim Murphy.

IMHO closest is not necessarily the most comfortable to play, otherwise LDG wouldn't have a pad in back. YMMV but the ergonomics of the front neck is much better for my long arms.

[Dave Grafe]

Curly Chalker had a reverse set-up, there’s nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same

[Bill McCloskey]

I agree with Dave that ergonomically, having the E9th on the front neck makes much more sense, which is why so many people prefer an SD10 over and S10. While I play both necks, the C6th is ergonomically harder to play for me than the E9th neck for that reason: having your arms stretched out a bit is simply more comfortable.

[Donny Hinson]

I just made a deal on a Fender 2000 and it will be a lot easier to add knee levers to the back neck of the guitar.

I don't see why? Just mount the levers near the rear apron, and then run the cables as required. My old Fender 1000 had the levers near the rear apron, and the hookups were dirt-simple.

[scott murray]

Curly Chalker had a reverse set-up, there’s nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same

Curly played almost exclusively C6 FYI.

not at all true. he played on Hee Haw for years, primarily E9. also the Wilburn Bros Show

his albums and personal appearances featured plenty of E9 and his Nashville Sundown record was exclusively E9

and not everyone has long arms FYI

[Dave Grafe]

Curly Chalker had a reverse set-up, there’s nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same

Curly played almost exclusively C6 FYI.

not at all true. he played on Hee Haw for years, primarily E9. also the Wilburn Bros Show

his albums and personal appearances featured plenty of E9 and his Nashville Sundown record was exclusively E9

and not everyone has long arms FYI

My '83 Zum was originally built with C6 in front and E9 in back, there is no law. I personally find the front neck is easier to move around on.

I stand corrected. My source for the statement was an old Steel Guitar magazine interview in which he went into detail about the C6 neck and how he approached it, and in which he didn't mention the E9 neck at all. I only ever had one CC album and it was all C6 work. My bad for drawing conclusions.

As for the length of other players' arms I pass no judgment, I simply stated what has worked best for me over the past 50+ years. You go ahead on with what works for you.

[scott murray]

I spend an equal amount of time on each neck and don’t find one more comfortable to play than the other. I think that goes for most of us but who knows

[Dale Rottacker]

For the additional bar movement of C6th over E9th it may be more practical to have C6th on the back. Oddly I've had D10's since the early 70's and never thought much about why each neck was where it was, but then there's a lot of things I haven't given much though too.

Then I had the bright idea that I wanted an S10. I waffled a long time if that should be an S10 or an SD10. When I'd go and visit my Dad who had an SD10, I'd play it, and with my forearms on the pad in back my arms would sweet like crazy. So I ended up getting a regular S10, but on an S12 cabinet with just a bit more lip behind the neck. I loved the guitar which sounded fantastic, but my 6x7 setup I felt a bit crowded and on top of that felt like I was hanging out in midair with nothing under my forearms, so ended up selling it. That brings me to, why don't I feel like I'm hanging off in space when I'm playing C6th? I find that odd.

The problem for me if I had E9th on the back, would be having those pedals in the middle of the guitar. As someone here mentioned there might be less cabinet drop, but I don't know. I do know that rocking off and on the AB pedals in the middle of the guitar would be difficult for me. The further left the pedals are the easier it is to get off that A pedal while staying on the B pedal. C6th is similar, but with less pedal rocking between the 5th and 6th pedal. Might be just me.

[John Swain]

When learning steel back in the '70s I was told C6 was usually on the back so you could lean back and see the pedals, as you used more on C6. Also having the E9 pedals close to the front leg eases the detuning which is more noticeable on the E9 tuning than the C6. FWIW

[scott murray]

that makes perfect sense John. I do have to look down at the C6 pedals pretty often

[Tyler Hall]

I’ll say this for anybody thinking about changing, you have no idea how ingrained in your brain the grips are until the necks are reversed. A friend of mine had Curly’s fingertip for a bit and I spent about 2hrs realizing something I thought I’d love, I couldn’t play, hardly at all. If I were to make the change, the right hand would for sure be the largest hurdle.

[Chris Lucker]

I have had a several late 1950's Sho-Bud Permanents that required the E9 on the back neck and the C6 on the front neck for the simple reason that if cabinet-wide, cross shafts 5-8 would collide with the neck controls located between the necks.
Therefore, placing the C6 neck on the audience-side allowed for all those cross shafts to be the short ones and the three E9 A, B, C cabinet-wide cross being on the inside neck.
Sho-Bud could have simply moved the neck switch stuff, but they chose not to at the time, perhaps because that is where the controls were with Wrights, Bigsbys, DALANDs etc?

[Herb Steiner]

I think it was because Joaquin Murphey had his C6 on the inside and E13th on the outside neck in 1945.

[Jim Pitman]

I play E9 and B6 on the same neck. I only have one neck. My guitar is much lighter and I have an extended 9 and 6 capabilities.
To this day I can't figure out why the "universal" isn't very popular and the double 10s keep selling. (let the mud slinging begin)

[scott murray]

not everyone has or feels the need to combine the tunings, they’re pretty perfect on their own and fulfill separate functions.

Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin among many others have stated that you lose a little of each tuning on a universal setup.

I’ve tried them all and I prefer a D10 in the end.
if it ain’t broke…

[Jim Pitman]

Interesting Scott, we are both early members I see, Aug 1998.
I have often considered switching to a double 10 but I think you get to know your neck regardless and if you change it there will always things that will be lost. I have a few tunes where i glide through the two modes during a fast single note passage. That is what I would loose if I were to switch to a double 10 from a universal 12. I would also miss having the root down low for the 9 mode.